Comments on: Pie & Prostitution Part 2

By: JDolla$

JDolla$ — Mon, 12 May 2008 03:25:27 +0000

Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, which pretty much means that you must spend your Economic Stimulus Check on stuff you don’t need in order to help boost the sagging economy.

By: Doug

Doug — Mon, 12 May 2008 01:07:53 +0000

When it comes to “caring for people,” I’ll cast my lot with George Bush’s answer: “I believe the government has a responsibility to help those who cannot help themselves.”

By: Shiree

Shiree — Mon, 12 May 2008 01:04:14 +0000

THAT is the question that I would like to have answered!! What does the Bible say about the role of government? I know that when I started studying psychology, I was introduced to the very controversial topic of “what the Bible says about psychology,” and I landed on the side of the debate that said “not much.” Of course the Bible says a great deal about finding freedom from the depraved state, relational attitudes and conduct, putting off the old self, etc. so there is much it offers the Christian who is in pursuit of a healthy mind and emotions; nevertheless, the deeper a person goes into the inner workings of the mind, body, emotions, etc, the more one realizes that there is a WHOLE LOT the Bible does NOT say on the topic. I have a hunch that issues of government may be the same. Sure, we have the nation of Israel to look at, but they were a theocracy for so long, and when they finally got a king, it was against the better counsel of God. And of course, there is a great deal of legal code in the OT, but I’m not sure we can apply that so well to issues of modern government. So, what DOES the Bible say about government, its role in society, its interaction with the church, etc? Lots of BIG unanswered questions here. If someone has some answers, please speak up.

By: Doug

Doug — Sun, 11 May 2008 23:09:37 +0000

Hmm… guess I didn’t address what the Bible says about the role of government. I’m not 100% sure. It’s enigmatic to some degree… maybe I’ll post a blog entry on it someday.

By: Doug

Doug — Sun, 11 May 2008 22:56:45 +0000

Oops…. I wrote that last bit… Shiree used my computer last…

By: Shiree

Shiree — Sun, 11 May 2008 22:56:21 +0000

That’s a great question! I’m not sure I know “the answer,” but I do believe it is NOT to take care of us. Ron Paul offers this description: “In a truly free nation, the government acts only as a referee by protecting property rights, enforcing contracts, prohibiting force and fraud, and providing national defense.” Eisenhower’s secretary of the treasury Ezra Taft says, “By deriving its just powers from the governed, government becomes primarily a mechanism for defense against bodily harm, theft and involuntary servitude. It cannot claim the power to redistribute the wealth or force reluctant citizens to perform acts of charity against their will.” The Alabama Constitution (in 196 is quoted by Taft: “That the sole object and only legitimate end of government is to protect the citizen in the enjoyment of life, liberty, and property, and when the government assumes other functions it is usurpation and oppression (Art. 1, Sec. 35).”

Those are some things to think about. I’m in favor of small government precisely because the larger the government the more oppression exists or can exist. It is never the case that bigger government equals more freedom and liberty.

By: VA Tech Hokie

VA Tech Hokie — Sun, 11 May 2008 17:08:51 +0000

Doug:

The “proper role” of government … what is it? And does the bible define the proper role of government? “Proper” in the United States probably means a role according to the constitution or according to the founding fathers. I’m curious what you and others think???

Regarding christian involvement in society, is it just social services that need christians involvement? What other areas of society desperately need christians? How about the media? The arts? How about higher education and universities? These seem to be areas of society where secularism dominates and I don’t know why. So it seems to me a new wind needs to blow in a bunch of places.

By: Shiree

Shiree — Sun, 11 May 2008 01:11:32 +0000

Well, I would love to dialogue more with you about it. I’ve kinda been out of the social service scene for awhile–since I started my psychology graduate degree. But I’m interested in learning from your experience. If gov’t funded programs are truly the best way to go, I need to be convinced of that so I can change my politics. If privately funded ones are best, then we need to harness all the ambition, drive, and talent of our generation so as to find ways to create more of them. And we need to harness the financial means of the generation ahead of us so the fruits of their hard work can go to programs that promote ideals we believe in.

I admire you for what you do, Amy. I hope none of our political bantering has come off like we don’t appreciate the love you show to the population you serve. It’s truly awesome. I know first hand from my own experience several years back just how thoroughly exhausting it can be.

By: Doug

Doug — Sun, 11 May 2008 01:08:13 +0000

Amy said: “I make very complicated ethical decisions constantly, but that will be the case whether you are in a secular agency, christian agency, or a church.”

Agreed!

By: Doug

Doug — Sun, 11 May 2008 01:06:49 +0000

I think this is why I’m for letting the system works itself out, because it really does take time. I’m glad to know there are “checks and balances” in the system, but I must ask, “Who defines them?” In a business it is clear: profit. But as you pointed out, it’s not that easy in social work. People aren’t products. And it’s very messy.

As far as a “new evangelicalism,” I’m all for that, but only if it leaves government in its proper role. We’ve become so accustomed to government involvement in our lives that it is hurting us in many ways. If Tim Keller, Jim Wallis, et al could lead evangelicals to become more socially responsible, better stewards of the environment, and be responsibly compassionate toward everyone, that will be truly awesome.

But here’s my hang-up. It’s about WE THE PEOPLE. Seriously. Remember when those old-fashioned revival preachers would come and say, “Revival starts in your heart”? I never knew what that meant until I was older. It basically means we’re all responsible to look after our neighbor, and when we all do that, it is happening as a community (hence a “revival” starts in a community). Add more funding to programs, raise taxes, give government greater power over society, and the individual does not feel any responsibility to be a “good neighbor” (apologies to State Farm).

Sounds like a recipe for a ton of people who neither feel compelled to care for their neighbors nor unable to do so if they wished.